Occupy Wherever

[lifelikefeel]

If you were given the opportunity to address the mobs of protesters at a site of any of the seemingly dozens of "Occupy...." locations (ie. Wall Street, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, etc.), what would you say to the "99%"?

Also, where do you think this is all leading? Riots? Revolution? Resolution? Police brutality? Random acts of kindness? More division? More unity? World peace? World war? More awareness for the issue of social justice? The Detroit Lions winning the Super Bowl? What are your thoughts?

[sshuffield70]

With all due respect, the one choice that's not up there..."Not a damn thing!"

[Cashmouthy]

I learned that the real 99% was the Tea Party and that these protestests represent the 2-4% that are either on drugs,lazy,uneducated, paid by unions to be there, paid by far left groups to be there, this is called astro-turf because it is fake grassroots-go to craiglists to get the $600 per week to lay around the street of America's cities, or they are just misguided. I am not invoved with either one, but at least the Tea Party people were clean- I saw them picking up after themselves at every one of the rallies that was covered on MSNBC, the accusations about them turned out to be lies, like they were racists or stupid and they were made up of all races-this just looks like pot smoking suburbanite white kids that listened to Professor Far-left too long in sociology class at the University of Daddy Went There and are getting paid to get high and they will get a college credit for telling the professor they were political protesters last fall, the Tea Party had some goofy people dressed like fouding fathers but for the majority of them they were mostly college graduates, business owners, and concerned for everyones health and welfare, were as these people, the "occupiers" -are only concerned about Welfare checks and free social programs, I heard this said by those knuckheads repeatly. Give me something except a job. I heard that repeatly, they want to be given money, given health care, given, given given, If you don't even care enough about your life to work and get health insurance, why should the rest of us care if you don't, on that note, why should we all have to pay for you if you don't care enough to work and get health insurance. As a society, we take care of the sick,elderly and disabled, they aren't the ones that are out there, it is the uber-lazy entitled culture that has sprung up. They are the ones who the politicians are really talking about when they try to guilt you into universal healthcare. We already take care of the ones that need it but they are used as pawns to get it for the worthless in our midst. They want to be modern slaves on Uncle Sam's plantation but of course we have to work for Uncle Sam to have the money to support these volunteer slaves. Where did survival of the fittest go in this culture. Survival of the fittest is real social justice. I say unto thee, take care of the sick and elderly but as for a healthy man if he doesn't work then he doesn't eat-Jesus. He is still right. And the Lions will be a wild card playoff team that loses in the first round. Lack of experience is a major factor in playoff games and they will feel the pressure and collapse.

[Cashmouthy]

You are exactly right Sshuffield70- exactly nothing...They are too lazy to work, they won't continue the rally as a political movement. Heck they are getting paid $600 a week to be there. The ads are on craigslist. Paid by unions and far-left organizations like Move on .org They are fake grass roots rallies..Astro-turf protesters. They will just go home to there po-dunk towns and get high as they tell their loser friends that "I was a protester man...who wants to touch me...."

[CardSharks8689]

I didn't vote. Because one of the options I was hoping for doesn't exist in the poll. I think this will end completely neutral. There are no winners in a war, a strike, a protest, or a fight.

I seriously believe unions going on strike can cripple the economy, even for just a short period. Unions walk off the job as if they were throwing a temper tantrum and giving the company a punch in the face, and stand outside and wait for the moment that something bad happens, as they think something bad happening (financial disaster or environmental disaster) will wake up the company and the union thinks they will get their demands met faster, when in reality, the money doesn't exist, and the company will act as if they would say to the union "Nice try, you failed."

Fighting and protests don't work. 'Nuff said.

[billycw]

I do think they are so many people who think they are entitlted to things that others worked for. Actually, this has been a long slow process that sadly arose from protests in the 60's. Nothing wrong with protesting a war that was more about money than just resolution. But the culture that started with the beatniks in the 50's spread through the drug culture that flourished en masse in the 60's. Recall drug humor was supposed to be funny until the mid 80's.
Truth be told, for every Vietnam protester who strongly believed they could change the outcome, they were about 5 more who rode along and were more concerned with sex and drugs. We got great Rock from that period,but musicians just permeated the self indulgence. Looking back, those peaceful demonstrations didn't stop the War. Made people more aware, but the real reason the US got out of Vietnam was money. As it always has been.
So, when people sit around and protest, they get attention from many types of people.Some will ignore them, some will join them. But the real people who matter are the ones with the power. Unless you reach them, nothing changes. Those with power don't care about who dies, who needs food, who needs help. It's only a rare politicain that leads change socially who doesn't care a great deal more about himself.

Protesting makes people feel satisfied they are doing something. But be honest....when was the last time you as an individual cared anbout someone walking a picket line if it doesn't directly affect you? This is what America has become....the reign of the self-entitled. This is why we have the Tea Party. I'm sorry to say, but Occupy Whatever will cause violence in some places, peace in others and traffic jams in most. Nice that people are voicing their opinions....but unless they plan to go further and put heat on their political reps, this will all be a waste of time. Better to work for something if you can instead of sitting around and complaing about what you haven't got. Rarely in America does this work.

[espnews26]

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/u...rporations.jpg

[lifelikefeel]

I would probably be slightly for the rich paying a teeny-tiny bit more in taxes but before we go blaming the rich and the EVIL corporations, first I'd like to see every single citizen, and illegal immigrant of which even one would be way too many, pay a flat tax of say 25-30% MAXIMUM. Do you realize that around 47% of Americans pay absolutely NO taxes at all, where is the fairness in that? Blaming the rich is what the 99% is mostly about. They keep whining about re-distribution of wealth. I can see why the Communist Party USA supports their movement (not to mention the Aryans and Nazis).

The 99% are utter idiots, but it's not entirely their fault. They are the direct result of our nation's educational system swirling down the proverbial toilet bowl. BAWOOOSH!!! Their heads are full of socialist/communist BULLSH*T which they are taught by their socialist/communist professors and since the 99% have no ambition to get a leg up in life, they want to bring everybody else down.

Regarding the EVIL corporations that don't pay taxes... if taxes are placed or raised on businesses, businesses will only raise prices of goods and services on the customers! That's right, higher costs are paid for by the consumer. HELLO!! So therefore, raising taxes on EVIL corporations will do no good. It would only hurt consumers resulting in higher prices thus encouraging businesses to look elsewhere for a more business-friendly environment (ie. overseas) resulting in even fewer jobs for Americans. Is this what our once-great country needs right now? The 99% would be better served if they turned their protests toward BIG FREAKING GOVERNMENT sucking endless amounts of tax money into the black hole of bueaucratic corruption, waste, and redundancy.

The bigger government becomes...
•the more money they need to operate
•the more redundant they become
•the more powerful they become
•the more oppressive they become
•the less power the people have

If government would become less GREEDY towards businesses and cut back on their anti-business regulations, maybe businesses would stay here in America and help create more jobs and actually help the economy, instead of trying to kill it. Big government is the problem, not big businesses.

[M2nFarisFan]

^ I often get the same reply about my work.....apparently, it's OK to have carcinogens in the air and people gagging and asthma being prevalent in the river valleys here in PA....because somehow, pollution means jobs. Never understood that, but hey. And I have to say this: I would be in support of having a flat tax, but I don't think anyone under the age of 30 should have to pay that. Most of us are barely making enough to survive (I make $30,000+ a year where I am....I need an apartment, utilities, car, food....the bills add up living away from home. I still get family support).

One you hit 30, man, you're on your own....you should have a decent job in the field, be working full-time, have a family, etc. If you can't keep a job after that, man, that's your own fault. I worked retail in college, and I can tell you that if you're only making $200 a week, tops, taking $30 or so out is not decimating the coffers of your local IRS office, but we had to scrape by on that. Once again, a lot of college students need that outside support....working for Penn State wasn't a multi-million-dollar venture.

I think the above could be fixed by raising trade tariffs and heavily taxing companies that ship jobs overseas. Reverse NAFTA and you'll fix the economy. That and I kind of liked the communist/socialist professors at Penn State. Because of that, we're finding jobs where most of the participating on here are sitting back collecting SS and welfare because of various reasons.....I think if you go to school for anything besides math, science, or engineering, yea, you're probably getting the liberal education. Me? I went to school, got the Bachelor's in physical and environmental geography, minored in meteorology and climatology, and you know what? I have skills in need. Get rid of everything that doesn't require math or thinking beyond a 9th grade level, and you won't have that problem.

[1stAmericanRose]

This is about as 'grass roots' as Pelosi's face is real!... JUST another Political scheme to 'use' people to do their 'BAD'! Shame on the unions for their part, The Unions started out in their beginnings as being a good thing, now they are HARMING America. It really hurts to see America fall to dirty tricks. Wonder what the TRUE PATRIOTS, that BUILT this NATION WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS? I think that these 'voices' should clean up behind themselves & get to work doing something that is USEFUL!... IF you have a complaint, take it to 'THE LEADER' in an orderly & LAWFUL Way! There used to be an old American Saying, "AMERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!" We have had enough CHANGE & THE CHANGE that we got, is hurting us. LET'S get back to the HARD WORK & BUILDING AMERICA back to the LEADER of THE FREE WORLD!(NOT FOLLOWING the failed nations in to surrender!)... MARCH Orderly on the White House, they are the ones who drove us into UNPAYABLE DEBT! ALSO: GET OFF YOUR BUTTS & PAY your Own way, there are NO FREE LUNCHES... SOME ONE has to pay! YOU ARE A SLAVE to WHOM YOU OWE! WHO wants to be a slave to CHINA? IF you want SOCIALISM, move to a SOCIALISTIC NATION.... I SERVED in the US ARMY 2x and I have earned the right to live here...ask yourself what have you done for YOUR COUNTRY!... BRACE yourselves, entitlement-seekers, things are going to get worse sooner than you think, I for one are looking closer to the charities that I donate to & so is everyone I know. IF you WILL not work, you should not Eat!

[lifelikefeel]

...I think the above could be fixed by raising trade tariffs and heavily taxing companies that ship jobs overseas.

Do you really think that companies pay taxes? Technically, sure. But companies make up for rising costs by passing those costs onto the customers, whether those rising costs are due to costlier labor or materials, or higher taxes. So who really pays the higher taxes placed on companies? Their customers. So obviously, higher taxes never is, never was, and never will be the answer to anything except bigger government.

[M2nFarisFan]

Do you really think that companies pay taxes? Technically, sure. But companies make up for rising costs by passing those costs onto the customers, whether those rising costs are due to costlier labor or materials, or higher taxes. So who really pays the higher taxes placed on companies? Their customers. So obviously, higher taxes never is, never was, and never will be the answer to anything except bigger government.

I'll remind you that there's a reason why the economy's down. It's the chain of events....

1. In the beginning, we manufactured our own goods here. We made a widget with American labor (I define widget to mean any arbitrary good; the particular good is irrelevant).
2. A Domestic worker would make the good for $1, sell it at market for $2, a profit of $1, and take the profit and buy food, housing, clothing, and basic needs.
3. Big Box Mart comes in, promising low prices. People say "ZOMG LOW PRICES!"
4. Big Box Mart realizes that in order to be competitive, they can't sell the widget from here because the margin's too thin. The $2 good doesn't undercut the competition's prices, so they suffer.
5. Big Box Mart says "We can ship it over to Foreign Land where they will make a widget for 50 cents, and we can sell it for $1 and make the same profit!" So they do.
6. People say "ZOMG LOW PRICES! I SAVE 50 CENTS EVERY WIDGET I BUY!" So they do.
7. In the meantime, the company that sells the Domestic widget for $2 is stuck in a bind. They are uncompetitive because the Foreign Workers can build the same at a 25% discount. They have two choices:
a: Take a pay cut to 50 cents, lowering the margin of profit;
b: Shutter their business here and move to Foreign Land
8. In regards to 7a:, the domestic worker has had his spending power cut in half. He now cannot afford to pay for his own good, which motivates him to buy Foreign Good.
9. In regards to 7b:, this move motivates Domestic companies to keep profit margins high, regardless of the individual worker.
10. This process repeats itself ad nauseam, until the Domestic worker is purged of his spending power, and despite a non-inflationary, supposedly "good" economic future, the value of the Domestic worker is decreased to the point of non-relevance compared to the Foreign Labor.

Now think of what I said and how you could break that chain. Let's go to #2. If we slapped a 50 cent tariff on the Foreign Labor-produced good, the price would be competitive with Domestic Labor. So now, the price of the good is the same, either way. If you increased it to 51 cents, the Domestic good would win out.

Now here's the "leap of faith", per se. Sure, the cost will be passed on to the consumer. The difference is that the Domestic Worker now has a job to pay that extra tax, whereas before, the marginal deficit was $2. Domestic workers and Foreign Labor are both comeptitive, meaning both will be enticed to produce higher quality at a lower price without having to deal with standards of living. In the end, the ten-step process above is reversed, putting the Domestic worker with spending power, a job, and little reliance on global price trends. The issue is that at the very top, the most wealthy people do not indulge as much because they are minimizing their profits at the expense of keeping their large workforce.

[lifelikefeel]

Nope, can't break the chain. My point regarding higher taxes on companies resulting in higher prices for consumers remains true. Your "foreign good" example demonstrates that tariffs and taxes upon a company exporting its labor (Big Box Mart) makes things fairer for the American worker and amounts to an equalization of profits for both the domestic company and BBM. So there, we're both right and the government can get its greedy, corrupt hands on more of BBM's profit margins! As long as that deters BBM from shipping jobs overseas I'm good with that.

[CardSharks8689]

There's no way this protest is going to end, except for the police being involved and peacefully ending these protests. If not for law enforcement, these protests may take forever to resolve.

Also, with regards to protests/strikes, there is a hotel strike in Chicago that has been ongoing for over 8 years (and counting). In fact, within the last 2 months, that strike hit a milestone - 3,000 days on the picket line. The hotel is still operating with replacement workers, though the hotel's future is likely in dire straits. It is currently the longest hotel strike in world history, most likely, and the only way it will end is either bankruptcy, a fire that may destroy the hotel, or becoming filthy enough that a government body - federal or state - may rule the hotel as unsanitary and may end up being condemned and demolished thereafter. If either event happens, the hotel will have to be demolished. If the strike would have ended, it would have ended by 2005 at the latest. But for it to go on this long, I have a funny feeling the hotel will end up going bankrupt by 2015.

[M2nFarisFan]

Here's an idea: Occupy college campuses next. USA Today lists student loan debt at $1 trillion . And that doesn't count the many of us college graduates who may have financed otherwise.

Commentary's awesome on that article from today. Maybe to create a side story, what do you folks think about that?