Official Hockey Discussion Thread

[billycw]

I don't like Sidney, but knowing someone who had a concussion before (my brother when he was three, okay?) makes the whole concussion thing something I want to be against. The brain is a very sensitive organ. Having it damaged by even a legal hit is not good.

Concussions are cumulative. This is why someone like Keith Primeau couldn't make it back. Why Lindros, who was genetically susceptive like his brother , became very soft at the end. Remarkable he played a few more years. Cost him a sure HOF spot. Think this is scary....
Guys played for years with concussions and were expected to play next game.But fact players are bigger and faster now means impact is much, much worse than 1980.

[M2nFarisFan]

I'm not in a rush to get Sidney back either. I'll be honest...I think if the Pens can pull off a Cup win this year, it will be one of the greatest sports stories in the past 30 years. Imagine if the Colts won the Super Bowl without Peyton Manning or the Yankees won the World Series without Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, and A-Rod. That's what I would equate it to. Considering the fact that the bulk of the forwards will be free agents after this year, at the very least, you'll get some great young talent with major-league playoff experience. Pens might not win it this year, but this team is going to be a factor for the next 10-12 seasons IMO.

(I hate to say it, but comparing Lindros to Crosby is like comparing Donovan McNabb to Tom Brady. Yea, the former might have had better years, but in the end, the latter maintained top performance long after those first few steps. Or at least shows potential.

[tmoore952]

Cute... maybe Flyers logo should be Lindros in bath tub with punctured lung being yelled at by Clarke to get onto the plane. BTW, was a Flyer fan from 1967 until the strike. HATE them. Never have watched an organization pull the crap on fans like they have done. We used to say to Ranger fans "1940 Forever". May the Flyers be "1975 Forever".

So what happened at the strike?

I assume you enjoyed the 1973-74 and 1974-75 Cups. If I had seen them, I might agree with you. But I started watching them in 1975-76. I'd like to see them win one (just one) Cup in my lifetime. Then I'd like to see the Capitals win one. And also the Bruins and the Maple Leafs.

To M2nFarisFan -- I don't think billycw was comparing Lindros and Crosby careerwise; he was talking about bringing them back from concussion injuries.

[M2nFarisFan]

Well, yea, tmoore, I understand that. It was a comparison based on the potentials of each player and the assumption that Lindros and Crosby had equal potential, which I thought was untrue. I thought Lindros was a player worthy of maybe a second line or a borderline scoring winger, but you have to remember that he had Brind'Amour, LeClair, Desjardins and others around him during the "Legion of Doom" years.

[TheNewNeko]

Cute... maybe Flyers logo should be Lindros in bath tub with punctured lung being yelled at by Clarke to get onto the plane. BTW, was a Flyer fan from 1967 until the strike. HATE them. Never have watched an organization pull the crap on fans like they have done. We used to say to Ranger fans "1940 Forever". May the Flyers be "1975 Forever".

Yeah, God forbid having 98-101% capacity and fans there year after year is totally hosing them. And when they do win next, I'll make a big logo with the slash through the 1975 just like the Rangers did with the 1940 on the back of their rings.

The year before the lockout, the Penguins had 70.1% attendance. The year they signed Crosby? 93.3%, the following year when they made the finals? 99.7%. Trust me, Pittsburgh is FULL of bandwagoners unless they're following the Steelers.

[racingchick1020]

Here are your games for February 25, 2011.

Carolina 4; Pittsburgh 1
Columbus 5; Phoenix 3
NY Rangers 6; Washington 0
Tampa Bay 2; New Jersey 1
Florida 2; Atlanta 1 (SO)
Buffalo 4; Ottawa 2
St. Louis 5; Edmonton 0
San Jose 4; Calgary 3 (SO)
Minnesota 3; Anaheim 2 (OT)

Your games are as follows. NHLNet in the States and RDS have your televised games. Rangers/Capitals are national on American TV; Senators/Sabres are national to French speaking Canadians via RDS.

[M2nFarisFan]

The year before the lockout, the Penguins had 70.1% attendance. The year they signed Crosby? 93.3%, the following year when they made the finals? 99.7%. Trust me, Pittsburgh is FULL of bandwagoners unless they're following the Steelers.

Did you bother including the 2006-2007 season, when the Pens lost to Ottawa in the first round? Not to stray too far from topic, but I really wish I could send you the argument a couple of sports journalists made about the Pirates and the real reason why they're bad....plus, I really think you should come to Pittsburgh and meet some of the people before you make such a brazen statement. I could say the same thing about people from Philadelphia, and you wouldn't be happy

I was actually quite enlightened today by the number of people I spoke to away from the computer today and how many of them told me how they remembered Alex Kovalev from his first tour of duty. I can attest to being extremely disappointed when I didn't get his jersey at the first ever Penguins Shirts Off Our Back game in 2002. I actually went out then and almost stiffed my mother $225 for his authentic jersey I settled for a John LeClair home jersey, post-strike. I often think that sports fans in general think it's the ultimate insult to call Pittsburghers bandwagoners, when most of the ones that really are sports fans will admit there are plenty of them in town....it's like admitting you have an incurable disease, a fact of life.

But I also maintain that pretty much any sports teams have large percentages of bandwagoners. TBQH, my first two years at Penn State consisted of never seeing any (and I mean not a single) Phillies jersey or anything bearing the logo. But after the World Series, holy smokes, they were everywhere. By comparison, even when Pittsburgh had two champions at one time, I seldom saw Steelers or Penguins stuff. Me personally, I didn't wear that stuff, because frankly, I was over it in two weeks. The Phillies fans, by and large, at Penn State, seemed to come out of the woodwork after they became successful. As I mentioned before, in truth, there's really a lack of data to state whether or not the Flyers would have been able to hold onto their fans if they tanked for a few seasons....it took three years of poor play for the Pens' attendance to drop off, and since the Flyers made the playoffs every year in the past 10 or so, save one season where they were bottom feeders, one could conclude that Flyers fans never really had a reason to abandon the team.

(Of course, that doesn't mean they aren't hostile. Many people I know mistake it for passion. But when passion comes in the form of flipping cars, booing the Hawks after they beat the manhood out of the Flyers, and basically dismissing more goaltenders than Mario and Gretzky could have ever done, one must question whether the fans are there to cheer the team on, or simply find the next victim. I even have anecdotal evidence that this is happening, and is definitely good reference material for the sports fan in general. )

[billycw]

Yeah, God forbid having 98-101% capacity and fans there year after year is totally hosing them. And when they do win next, I'll make a big logo with the slash through the 1975 just like the Rangers did with the 1940 on the back of their rings.

The year before the lockout, the Penguins had 70.1% attendance. The year they signed Crosby? 93.3%, the following year when they made the finals? 99.7%. Trust me, Pittsburgh is FULL of bandwagoners unless they're following the Steelers.

I left with LeClair. But you forget what the Pens were like with bad ownership until Mario came along. I was truly a Flyers fan, but I recall years in the 80's when it wasn't that hard to get a Flyer ticket. Agree Flyer, Red Wing and Ranger fans are the most loyal. No question. Bruin and Leaf fans are close( Habs had trouble selling out for awhile).But the Flyer management leaves much to be desired with the handling of players.It's better with Holmgren, but I could list about a dozen things. Maybe I will when i get more time.

[M2nFarisFan]

But you forget what the Pens were like with bad ownership until Mario came along. I was truly a Flyers fan, but I recall years in the 80's when it wasn't that hard to get a Flyer ticket.

*applause* Thank you for providing verity for what I've been trying to state for years now. Look at it this way: Penguins had to jettison Jagr in 2001 because they couldn't pay him. If you really look at the attendance numbers by then, they hadn't fallen off that much. Even if the Pens would have kept their 90-95% attendance, I still think the team would have tanked, thanks to playing in a theater since their inception, a theater which (at the time) was the smallest in the NHL. The team had been bankrupted twice, thanks to overspending and an idea that being competitive meant having to go into debt. If you really want to criticize someone, go after Gary Bettman for allowing teams like Colorado, Detroit, and Philadelphia to essentially buy themselves championships while small-market teams had to suffer. It's hard for the fans of those teams to realize that (figure that it's hard to understand making minimum wage if you've always worked as an executive, to put analogy to it).

I think the reason why Flyers fans hate the Penguins is that now, the Flyers have to play fair, within the rules, and within the salary cap. I even think it's manifested in the hate of Crosby, mostly because every Flyer fan I've ever met would dream of having him on his or her favorite hockey team. Figure that if the only reason why people hate the Pens is because we have Crosby and you don't, we must have done a pretty good job here in Pittsburgh of creating a top-tier sports monolith.

[billycw]

And only if the Pirates would get it......when they traded Bay, that was it for me. At least I had Stargell, Hebner, Clemente and Blass when I was little. Thought Littlefield was the worst. Huntington is the biggest idiot ever to be a GM. Michael Keaton was right.....Pirate fans are cheated yearly.....

BTW, I am a life long Eagle fan. Like Neko and tmoore, I also hope a Philly team wins one before I die. Never have seen an Eagle Championship. When Reid hires his O=Line coach to be Defensive Coordinator, they mave have to score 40 a game to win.....ah, to be a fan in Philly.



ANYWAY, KOVALEV is a STUPID move!!! The over-under on him backchecking in a game is one.

[tmoore952]

Flyers did fail to make the playoffs for 5 years straight 1990-1994. I remember that it was possible to get single game tickets during that time. I actually went to some games then -- the only Flyers games I have ever attended in Philadelphia. You might want to look at data from that time as far as attendance.

I can't speak for college kids or apparantly for the "typical" Flyers (or Phillies) fan as encountered by M2FarisFan. Everyone I have ever known who is a Flyers fan is indifferent about Crosby -- they respect him, are in awe of his talents, but certainly nothing along the lines of "hate". Maybe it would help you to know I am turning 44 on Saturday and am an engineer, so maybe I and the others I am around are not typical (probably too educated??). I don't drink very much anymore, so I don't do dumb things at arenas -- I haven't been to any games in any sport for a few years now --- it's kind of hard to do with a toddler to take care of.

My generation of Phillies fans did see the 1980 World Championship, so the one in 2008 was a nice deja vu moment. But unlike those in college in 2008 who had gone through their entire lifetime up to that point (possibly up to 25 years) with no championships, we had seen success in Philly before, with the Phillies and Sixers and, if you were older than I am, the Flyers. I'm not surprised the Phillies fans came out of the woodwork after 2008.

It's unfortunate M2FarisFan doesn't remember the '70s and the Pirates teams from that time which were quite good. I was reminded of this recently with the death of Chuck Tanner, who managed the team when they won the 1979 World Series. He was a good guy. So was Stargell. Even us Phillies fans could see that. Right after Tanner died about a month ago, I heard "We Are Family" on the radio -- that was the Pirates theme song in 1979. Things were a little different then, nowhere near as hostile. At that time I was visiting Pittsburgh quite frequently -- probably one of few who was spending time in both Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and liking both places.

It is still unknown (apparantly) how this concussion will affect Crosby going forward. Hopefully he won't wind up like Lindros.

[racingchick1020]

It is still unknown (apparantly) how this concussion will affect Crosby going forward. Hopefully he won't wind up like Lindros.

It depends on if he feels "fine" and comes back early. See the story of Marc Savard - he comes back in the playoffs last season and gets drained of energy quickly. He only played a handful of games this season before another concussion took him out. It was mainly a combination of the Cooke hit and the Hunwick hit, but still...

[M2nFarisFan]

To respond to tmoore's statement, I would say this: I don't think the relationship between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia was as hostile back then because, for the most part, the Internet wasn't around. A lot (and I mean a TON) of the hostility comes from trolling and blogs. I personally think that the whole Crosby thing is a manifestation of the power shift in the standings. If you really want a sign of what a typical Philadelphia sports fan acts like, it's entitlement and trying to use the work-hard persona of Pittsburgh as a statement of weakness.

Back to topic, Pens lost again. But the good thing is that I really am liking Kovy's addition to the power play. I can say that he is drawing a lot of attention and freeing up Neal and Letang for decent shots. I can see perhaps if Crosby comes back this season, that the Pens power play should be much improved thanks to the recent trades. I don't think Kovy comes back next season, but Neal is going to get a long-term agreement to be Crosby's needed wingmate. Perhaps we will see the second coming of Lemieux-Jagr or Gretzky-Kurri.

[racingchick1020]

Here are your games for February 26, 2011.

Dallas 3; Nashville 2
Los Angeles 4; Colorado 3
Washington 3; NY Islanders 2
Ottawa 4; Philadelphia 1
Pittsburgh 6; Toronto 5 (SO)
Montreal 4; Carolina 3
Detroit 3; Buffalo 2 (SO)
Boston 3; Vancouver 1

That's not a lot of games, but that's a lot of action on HNIC tonight. You see what you have in front of you. Hope that helps. (I'm tired, so lack of writing is my fault.)

[tmoore952]

Caps lost ugly again at home -- 6-0 shutout loss to Rangers. Although their move to be more defense oriented is a necessary adjustment, their offense has gone MIA, and they are maddenly inconsistent. It'll be interesting to see what McPhee (GM) does as the trading deadline approaches.

Agree with M2NFarisFan - Internet has changed things a lot. It was a lot harder to voice opinions to the "other side" before the Internet, as we know it now as used by everyone, came along. I often forget about that since the Internet hasn't always been there, and even now I am not on it all the time.