Official Wrestling Discussion Thread

[King888]

Dude, you want an honest answer? Vickie probably needs to take some time off the road. (Non-kayfabe reason, obviously.) So she gets "fired" in order to take a break. All wrestlers need time off the road. There's probably something going on at home and that's why she's been "kicked off of SmackDown!". Really, no biggie.

No, because unlike Teddy, Vickie doesn't take a 1 month break every few months like Teddy Long does. I can definitely understand how Mr. Nemeth needs a break since he works very hard in the ring and is a true and awesome athlete at wrestling, but Teddy doesn't need any breaks just for insulting a Legend like Dolph Ziggler or a beautiful woman like Vickie Guerrero.

Off Topic, I'm laughing hysterically now because someone on That Wrestlin Universe by the username of krystina just joined CB's and my co-owned site. The reason I'm laughing is because she's not only a Cena fan, but her profile picture there is hilarious and hard to look at simultaneously. Since it is a wrestling forum partly owned by me, I think I'll need to do the "right thing" for every member there eventually if you know what I mean.

[racingchick1020]

There's always a kayfabe reason and a non-kayfabe reason why someone's taking time off. You see the kayfabe reason on TV all the time. But there's usually something off camera, like personal reasons. That's why you see people leaving because they're "fired" by the higher-ups.

Ziggler's probably taking a few weeks off to relax, and I wouldn't blame Vickie for getting out of the spotlight as well. Recharge the batteries and come back refreshed. It wouldn't hurt. (Vickie Guerrero the person probably needs the time off from touring or needs to get away from the cameras.)

The only person who I don't see taking a break ever is John Cena. Even when he was kayfabe fired, you still saw him on TV. The reason why is because the fans love him. If he wasn't on TV all the time, you'd probably see ratings drop somewhat. Mainly from the women and children.

I don't understand why you can't look at this from a different perspective. Your mind isn't exactly open to these things. (Are you doing this whole thing for fun or are you that inept? My opinion would be different if you were inept. I wouldn't be such a... Let's just say I wouldn't be acting like a (b-bomb) if you didn't realize that backstage things happen.)

[King888]

You wonder why I'm a kayfabe person? After a few months of you asking, I'm gonna be generous today and tell you why. A person does NOT always need to take everything in wrestling as real. I'm an Administrator on TWU and a member and probably soon to be Administrator on PWF/PWE and on both of those, we don't always take wrestling for real, but we also take our kayfabe forms a lot and have some debates. I'm probably 1 of the most liked on both of those wrestling sites, and yet if you joined, you wouldn't only get a cold welcome from me over there because of your style of taking wrestling, but by quite a few other people.

[TheKid965]

Oddly enough, this response (flaccid though it is) does raise an interesting point, even if unintentionally.

When fans of a more "traditional" form of scripted entertainment -- say, a TV show or movie -- start getting into the storyline and talking about characters and situations as if they were real, this is seen by other fans as a positive thing; it shows that the fictional reality that milieu creates is strong enough to draw you in and promote an emotional response.

When a wrestling fan starts doing the same thing, this is seen by others (even other wrestling fans, for the most part) as a negative thing. Rather than displaying an enthusiasm for the product, it demonstrates to others a certain lack of knowledge over just what that product is. We call them "dumb marks" and make fun of their perceived lack of intelligence, buying into angles and storylines that are patently ludicrous on their faces.

Why is it seen as OK to "mark out," as it were, for a standard TV show but not for a wrestling show? One is just as far removed from reality as the other, after all; just as scripted and choreographed (note the avoidance of the word "fake"). If anything, wrestling may actually be somewhat more "real" than your typical Hollywood action flick, since none of these guys have stunt doubles or CGI working in their favor. Is it a function of the fact wrestling has traditionally been something that only appeals to either very young children or social undesirables, and that we as fans have to constantly parrot the "yeah, we know it's not real" refrain over and over, even among ourselves, just to avoid being written off as losers -- even to the point where we cannot allow ourselves to appreciate the product when it is sucking us in?

I'm not defending King here, of course, but what he said in his last post did get me to thinking about why this situation exists...

[King888]

Other than the fact that the hottest woman and handsomest man in the WWE are unfortunately gone temporarily now because of Teddy Long, we did witness a heartwarming moment tonight. It was the reuniting of father and son, Dusty Rhodes and "Dashing" Cody Rhodes when they did something very generous to Rey Mysterio and that was teaching the little chihuahua a lesson not to mess with Rhodes beautiful face. The moment Dusty kept on holding Rey's hand to allow Cody to beat Rey up was a very touching moment indeed and Rey should have loved every moment of it because he knew he deserved it for what he purposely did to Cody before and it was a great family moment for everyone.

[racingchick1020]

Why is it seen as OK to "mark out," as it were, for a standard TV show but not for a wrestling show?

It's okay to mark out for wrestling when you do it at the right spots. The true times I do this marking out thing is when someone shows up on wrestling-related programming and I haven't seen them on it in a while. I didn't see RAW on Monday because I was out, but the rumors that HHH and Taker were coming back were all over the place. I don't think I could have marked out after reading them.

Rock coming back and blowing the roof off of last week's RAW? I marked out.
Shawn Michaels coming to reveal that he was the first HOF inductee? I marked out.
The ENTIRE Old School RAW before Survivor Series? I marked out.

But if it's Orton, or Cena, or Miz for that matter - I don't think it's appropriate to mark out for someone who's in the building week after week. If you're going to do it, do it for those who you least expect to see.

And as for Adam being kayfabe-minded? The only people I could see doing it are the youngsters who don't go on the dirt sheet sites like Wrestlezone or PWInsider (naming examples). I find that looking at the information and knowing about some of the stuff backstage or whatever helps grasp the concept that... You know, Vickie Guerrero didn't actually get fired from SmackDown!, to start.

In a kayfabe sense, she did get fired.
In a non-kayfabe sense, she's taking a break for a few weeks.

If you at least know that people aren't getting fired unless WWE truly confirms it, then okay. Fine. But don't act like you haven't at least read the sites before.

And it's not just Adam. I'm also talking about gameshowfan91 and his assessment of Vickie in the past. Calling her what you'd call a female dog. I know you're old enough to understand that not everything you see on WWE television is legit.

[King888]

And as for Adam being kayfabe-minded? The only people I could see doing it are the youngsters who don't go on the dirt sheet sites like Wrestlezone or PWInsider (naming examples). I find that looking at the information and knowing about some of the stuff backstage or whatever helps grasp the concept that... You know, Vickie Guerrero didn't actually get fired from SmackDown!, to start.

And it's not just Adam. I'm also talking about gameshowfan91 and his assessment of Vickie in the past. Calling her what you'd call a female dog. I know you're old enough to understand that not everything you see on WWE television is legit.

In defense of both me and gameshowfan91, 2 things. You said you marked out for HBK who's a face that doesn't deserve to be in the HOF and marked out for The Rock who's also a face who only cares about the money, yet it seems you don't mark out for awesome heels like The Miz or Dolph Ziggler who deserve to be marked out for each and every week for their awesomeness. For evidence piece #2, here's a link to prove I'm not the only 1 in favor of the Vickie/Teddy firing kayfabe sense.

Vickie Being Fired Kayfabe Responses

[racingchick1020]

You said you marked out for HBK who's a face that doesn't deserve to be in the HOF and marked out for The Rock who's also a face who only cares about the money, yet it seems you don't mark out for awesome heels like The Miz or Dolph Ziggler who deserve to be marked out for each and every week for their awesomeness.

Responses like these make me wonder why I bother trying to come up with reasonable rebuttles. I don't think you understand.

If a guy hasn't been seen on WWE-related programming and I have no clue when it's going to happen, I mark out. I'm going to count Booker T and Diesel's appearances in the Rumble in this category for one sole reason. Yes, they were confirmed to make appearances. You didn't know when they were coming. It adds to the drama. Once I heard the music hit, I was literally trying to find air to breathe. It was that kind of a response that makes one mark out.

I'm also going to count Lita's brief appearance when Pee Wee Herman guest starred on RAW. The quick cameo ended up getting a lot of attention. Even though it wasn't much, it was still a nice surprise. Did you expect to see her make that appearance? I would doubt it.

Miz and Dolph are on RAW and SmackDown! regularly. (Well, until Dolph got kayfabe fired, which is another story.) I can't mark out for someone like them or someone like Cena, who happens to be on week after week. Where the hell's the novelty? There isn't any. It's like... "Yay. They're here. Whatever."

I can't get into seeing the same guys week after week.

Doesn't matter if they're faces or heels. If a guy from the early 90s came back on Monday for a little segment and he was a heel back then - and there are plenty of choices out there, so don't assume you know who I'm talking about because it can be very open ended here - yeah, I'll mark out.

[King888]

I have very bad news regarding PWE. Fellow Mizfit, Travis The Awesome One will most likely lose his Admin position because he's being accused of messing with people who don't like The Miz even though everyone should. I pity him entirely, but if he does lose his Administrator spot, the main Admin, AB, will be picking a new Admin which will most likely be me no matter what, so then I'll bring more dignity back to Travis, me, and especially all Miz fans.

[King888]

Johnny Curtis won NXT Season 4 in a fluke victory over Brodus Clay. But I could careless about that, what was awesome last night was that the Legendary Cole and Legendary Miz both spoke their chosen words of wisdom. Their words were awe inspiring as usual, but what made the night for me last night was Jerry "The Queen" Lawler tapping out to the Ankle Lock by Jack Swagger and at WM27 now, Michael Cole will defeat and demolish Lawler.

[racingchick1020]

Here's what I think is going to happen.

It's going to be the blowoff to the feud, because I'm kind of sick of this. Usually the face wins the blowoff, so with that being said, it's going to be Lawler finding some way to win.

So Swagger's the coach. Who's the guest referee? Vickie? Dolph? Someone in Cole's family?

[King888]

So Swagger's the coach. Who's the guest referee? Vickie? Dolph? Someone in Cole's family?

All of us on PWE are incredibly smart, and we already know for a fact who the Special Referee will be. A-Ry is now officially fired, but all of us over there are 100% confident that it's Alex Riley because Cole will want him back in the WWE and that's just how to do it. At WM27, it won't be Cena's and Lawler's nights for the 80th time, but it will be the nights of Cole and Miz.

[racingchick1020]

I don't know if you've noticed, but WWE's been burying everyone who was on NXT season two. Husky had his head punted by Orton a few weeks back. McGuillicutty had his head punted Monday, and Riley can't win a match to save his life, which is the reason why he was fired. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think it's Riley. How does he fit in with the Cole/Lawler storyline?

[King888]

I don't know if you've noticed, but WWE's been burying everyone who was on NXT season two. Husky had his head punted by Orton a few weeks back. McGuillicutty had his head punted Monday, and Riley can't win a match to save his life, which is the reason why he was fired. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think it's Riley. How does he fit in with the Cole/Lawler storyline?

First of all, Riley was the apprentice of Cole's favorite wrestler, that's where it fits in for him. As for Lawler, Miz and Lawler just finished a rivalry at EC and still hate each other, so again with Riley being Miz's former apprentice, that's where it could fit in for both of them.

[racingchick1020]

^ I'm thinking someone's throwing a curveball here. Read the spoiler, then tell me what you're thinking and what you want.

Michael Cole and Jack Swagger delivered a promo. Cole said he will reveal the special referee for his WrestleMania 27 match with Jerry Lawler on Monday's Raw. He said the referee will be awesome.

Link: *Spoilers:* Complete WWE Smackdown Results For 3/4 [Wrestlezone]

From what the spoiler says, it's leaning towards Miz, but he's in a match on the same card. Rumors are saying that it's either Vickie or Austin, but if you want to believe them, go with the first option.

I'm on an editing spree here 'cause I keep screwing up.